Comments on: Introducing Buildr, or how we cured our Maven blues http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/ Fri, 12 Mar 2010 02:57:56 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Anonymous http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-141681 Anonymous Wed, 14 Jan 2009 15:31:14 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/#comment-141681 Sorry that you hate Maven 2, and am especially sorry you wrote statements like "Either way, we had to choose. Agile or Maven. One of them will have to go." I think it is only a matter of time before the Ant and Maven folks decide to start working together to come up with a next generation build tool. Trying to make the Java world that primarily uses Ant, Maven 1/2, or just their IDE to build projects use Rake instead is not going to fly, and I think you might rethink your decision once you go to your next job, unless you are using Ruby/JRuby there, which might be the case. Sorry that you hate Maven 2, and am especially sorry you wrote statements like “Either way, we had to choose. Agile or Maven. One of them will have to go.”

I think it is only a matter of time before the Ant and Maven folks decide to start working together to come up with a next generation build tool. Trying to make the Java world that primarily uses Ant, Maven 1/2, or just their IDE to build projects use Rake instead is not going to fly, and I think you might rethink your decision once you go to your next job, unless you are using Ruby/JRuby there, which might be the case.

]]> By: Hints for Mavenization of Java Web Applications « Java and more … http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-141578 Hints for Mavenization of Java Web Applications « Java and more … Mon, 10 Nov 2008 17:23:46 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/#comment-141578 [...] And last but not least: Be Warned! [...] [...] And last but not least: Be Warned! [...]

]]> By: Tomohawk http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-139817 Tomohawk Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:29:37 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/#comment-139817 Completely agree with unreliability/complexity of Maven2. Tried it. Went back to ant, with maven antlib. Allows us to interact with artifact repositories very easily from ant. Much more reliable than straight maven for exactly the same tasks. Another key problem with maven is dual use of pom file as both an artifact descriptor and a build script. I guess they never heard of separation of concerns? We now generate poms with ant, and poms are pure descriptors only. Definately agree that xml is a lousy scripting language. Looking forward to giving buildr a try. Completely agree with unreliability/complexity of Maven2. Tried it. Went back to ant, with maven antlib. Allows us to interact with artifact repositories very easily from ant. Much more reliable than straight maven for exactly the same tasks.

Another key problem with maven is dual use of pom file as both an artifact descriptor and a build script. I guess they never heard of separation of concerns? We now generate poms with ant, and poms are pure descriptors only.

Definately agree that xml is a lousy scripting language. Looking forward to giving buildr a try.

]]> By: Xanthros http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-139615 Xanthros Fri, 18 Jan 2008 22:55:34 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/#comment-139615 This is the best maven user guide I've seen. http://www.sonatype.com/book/maven-user-guide.pdf @Tim O’Brien "The only way to use the cobertura plugin at the moment is to look at the source code for the Maven 2 plugin because the documentation is wrong. So, in other words, the only way you can really use maven is if you are comfortable reading the source code. Ugh." This is a completely idiotic statement. Maven is based upon plugin architecture. Maven *ISN'T* to blame for a bad plugin or that plugin's documentation. So get your story straight. The documentation for Cobertura is terrible not Maven. Not to mention that the Cobertura plugin is *open source*. If you found discrepancies in the docs then submit those and get them fixed! But I guess it is easier for some of us to just complain! This is the best maven user guide I’ve seen.

http://www.sonatype.com/book/maven-user-guide.pdf

@Tim O’Brien

“The only way to use the cobertura plugin at the moment is to look at the source code for the Maven 2 plugin because the documentation is wrong. So, in other words, the only way you can really use maven is if you are comfortable reading the source code. Ugh.”

This is a completely idiotic statement. Maven is based upon plugin architecture. Maven *ISN’T* to blame for a bad plugin or that plugin’s documentation. So get your story straight. The documentation for Cobertura is terrible not Maven. Not to mention that the Cobertura plugin is *open source*. If you found discrepancies in the docs then submit those and get them fixed! But I guess it is easier for some of us to just complain!

]]> By: IT-eye » Maven, Ant, Buildr, or what? http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-138264 IT-eye » Maven, Ant, Buildr, or what? Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:35:46 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/#comment-138264 [...] But recently I’ve noticed projects moving away from Maven. Some people complain that it’s too hard to do non standard stuff. It supposedly it’s also pretty hard to debug when your build isn’t working: Introducing buildr or how we cured our maven blues. [...] [...] But recently I’ve noticed projects moving away from Maven. Some people complain that it’s too hard to do non standard stuff. It supposedly it’s also pretty hard to debug when your build isn’t working: Introducing buildr or how we cured our maven blues. [...]

]]> By: JavaSPEKTRUM Blogosphäre » Blog Archiv » Blogosphäre (aus JavaSPEKTRUM 04/07) http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-138130 JavaSPEKTRUM Blogosphäre » Blog Archiv » Blogosphäre (aus JavaSPEKTRUM 04/07) Mon, 09 Jul 2007 20:35:37 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/#comment-138130 [...] Alternative gesucht – und diese auf Basis von Rake, dem Buildwerkzeug für Ruby, unter dem Namen Buildr realisiert. Rake ist eine in Ruby implementierte “Internal DSL”, also eine [...] [...] Alternative gesucht – und diese auf Basis von Rake, dem Buildwerkzeug für Ruby, unter dem Namen Buildr realisiert. Rake ist eine in Ruby implementierte “Internal DSL”, also eine [...]

]]> By: prozz’s blog » Blog Archive » Ruby researches http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-138122 prozz’s blog » Blog Archive » Ruby researches Thu, 05 Jul 2007 11:04:04 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/#comment-138122 [...] plus Ruby expressiveness. I think it’s not just yet another build tool Check for evangelism here and [...] [...] plus Ruby expressiveness. I think it’s not just yet another build tool Check for evangelism here and [...]

]]> By: Georges http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-138107 Georges Wed, 27 Jun 2007 21:04:27 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/#comment-138107 Well, I have moved Ant / make scripts into Maven 1 a couple of years back. It was hard but did work really well. The project had 40 modules - both Java, C++. Last year I helped a big telecom company move a 60 module Ant build to Maven2. Again - it was hard but well worth the effort. We reduced developer setup time from 2 days to 2 hours. It contained all sorts of different packagings - jars, wars etc. Generated stub/skeletons for Corba and web services. Combined with CruiseControl is served as a backbone for developers in 4 different countries and really helped us achieve our agile goals. The last 6 months I have used Maven again - this time together with Continuum. Works like a charm. The nice thing was that when joining the project a knew my way around the modules and source trees. Great work from the Maven guys!!! Well, I have moved Ant / make scripts into Maven 1 a couple of years back. It was hard but did work really well. The project had 40 modules – both Java, C++.
Last year I helped a big telecom company move a 60 module Ant build to Maven2. Again – it was hard but well worth the effort. We reduced developer setup time from 2 days to 2 hours. It contained all sorts of different packagings – jars, wars etc. Generated stub/skeletons for Corba and web services. Combined with CruiseControl is served as a backbone for developers in 4 different countries and really helped us achieve our agile goals.
The last 6 months I have used Maven again – this time together with Continuum. Works like a charm. The nice thing was that when joining the project a knew my way around the modules and source trees.
Great work from the Maven guys!!!

]]> By: drehorgelmann http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-138106 drehorgelmann Wed, 27 Jun 2007 16:42:31 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/#comment-138106 I'm sorry, but your "trust me it doesn't work" attitude is not really convincing. How about actually showing a few examples of non-working Maven pom.xml-s? I’m sorry, but your “trust me it doesn’t work” attitude is not really convincing. How about actually showing a few examples of non-working Maven pom.xml-s?

]]> By: Assaf http://labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/comment-page-1/#comment-138080 Assaf Tue, 12 Jun 2007 18:28:55 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2007/04/18/introducing-buildr-or-how-we-cured-our-maven-blues/#comment-138080 Kris, I am not a Maven 2.0 contributor. I do have a way to distribute plugins, just not the time to bother with a complex development cycle for something that can be done in one, maybe two lines of Ruby code. This post was written after we converted about a dozen projects over to Buildr, some of which qualify as large and complicated. I believe anything that requires 5,400 lines of Maven/Ant code to build (check out Ode), qualifies. Our experience so far? It rocks. We spend the last amount of time maintaining it, no more broken builds, clunky XML or insurmountable bugs. We adopted some principles from Maven, some principles from Apache, some principles from Ant, some principles from Rake. We just did it in a way that works and takes the pain out of builds. Kris,

I am not a Maven 2.0 contributor. I do have a way to distribute plugins, just not the time to bother with a complex development cycle for something that can be done in one, maybe two lines of Ruby code.

This post was written after we converted about a dozen projects over to Buildr, some of which qualify as large and complicated. I believe anything that requires 5,400 lines of Maven/Ant code to build (check out Ode), qualifies.

Our experience so far? It rocks. We spend the last amount of time maintaining it, no more broken builds, clunky XML or insurmountable bugs.

We adopted some principles from Maven, some principles from Apache, some principles from Ant, some principles from Rake. We just did it in a way that works and takes the pain out of builds.

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