Comments on: At the risk of flaming … http://labnotes.org/2006/03/24/at-the-risk-of-flaming/ Tue, 15 May 2012 02:41:51 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Assaf http://labnotes.org/2006/03/24/at-the-risk-of-flaming/comment-page-1/#comment-1861 Assaf Sun, 26 Mar 2006 03:06:55 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2006/03/24/at-the-risk-of-flaming/#comment-1861 I'm a strong believer in using the best tool for the job, I will keep using PHP and I will keep using Java, because neither one of these languages is the be all. But PHP _and_ Java? That strikes me as "any color as long as it's black". The Ford model worked great because it was better than anything that came before it. Until someone realized you can do assembly line, and you can do diverse products, and stole their market share. In case of Java, merging on a single language (platform independence, bigger libraries) was better than anything that came before, and it fixed everything that was hard with C/C++. But open-source languages managed to catch up. Now platform neutrality and expansive libraries are the norm, and it's time to gain from diversity. It's time to think beyond "any color as long as it's black". I’m a strong believer in using the best tool for the job, I will keep using PHP and I will keep using Java, because neither one of these languages is the be all.

But PHP _and_ Java? That strikes me as “any color as long as it’s black”.

The Ford model worked great because it was better than anything that came before it. Until someone realized you can do assembly line, and you can do diverse products, and stole their market share.

In case of Java, merging on a single language (platform independence, bigger libraries) was better than anything that came before, and it fixed everything that was hard with C/C++.

But open-source languages managed to catch up. Now platform neutrality and expansive libraries are the norm, and it’s time to gain from diversity.

It’s time to think beyond “any color as long as it’s black”.

]]> By: Isaac Gouy http://labnotes.org/2006/03/24/at-the-risk-of-flaming/comment-page-1/#comment-1860 Isaac Gouy Sun, 26 Mar 2006 02:12:06 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2006/03/24/at-the-risk-of-flaming/#comment-1860 >> “I suppose we could suggest he’s arguing that Java covers >> the long tail of software projects.” > So why not say just that? He did, but not in a way that you understood. I just expressed what Mr Gosling said using a cliche I guessed you would be familiar with. > I don’t believe in one language to rule them all. Here's a funny thing - if you read what Mr Gosling actually said you'll notice he talks about using PHP with Java. >> “I suppose we could suggest he’s arguing that Java covers
>> the long tail of software projects.”
> So why not say just that?

He did, but not in a way that you understood.
I just expressed what Mr Gosling said using a cliche I guessed you would be familiar with.

> I don’t believe in one language to rule them all.

Here’s a funny thing – if you read what Mr Gosling actually said you’ll notice he talks about using PHP with Java.

]]> By: Assaf http://labnotes.org/2006/03/24/at-the-risk-of-flaming/comment-page-1/#comment-1856 Assaf Sat, 25 Mar 2006 21:06:34 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2006/03/24/at-the-risk-of-flaming/#comment-1856 Read further down that thread and you'll learn it was the wrongly linked video that caused people to think "did he really say that?" They posted an updated link. "I suppose we could suggest he’s arguing that Java covers the long tail of software projects." So why not say just that? IMO there's a lot of benefits in a language that covers the long tail of software projects. You only need to learn one language. And there's an economy of size going for that one language. I just don't find it relevant. I'm in the camp of people who think multi-lingual programming has more yield. In my experience Java is not a bad language, it's just an overkill. I'll keep developing for Java when it makes sense, and I can come up with a laundry list of use cases. But I'll pick up other languages when I get more mileage out them, when the benefits outweight the learning cost. Like I said before, I don't believe in one language to rule them all. Read further down that thread and you’ll learn it was the wrongly linked video that caused people to think “did he really say that?” They posted an updated link.

“I suppose we could suggest he’s arguing that Java covers the long tail of software projects.”

So why not say just that? IMO there’s a lot of benefits in a language that covers the long tail of software projects. You only need to learn one language. And there’s an economy of size going for that one language.

I just don’t find it relevant. I’m in the camp of people who think multi-lingual programming has more yield.

In my experience Java is not a bad language, it’s just an overkill. I’ll keep developing for Java when it makes sense, and I can come up with a laundry list of use cases. But I’ll pick up other languages when I get more mileage out them, when the benefits outweight the learning cost.

Like I said before, I don’t believe in one language to rule them all.

]]> By: Isaac Gouy http://labnotes.org/2006/03/24/at-the-risk-of-flaming/comment-page-1/#comment-1844 Isaac Gouy Sat, 25 Mar 2006 08:51:23 +0000 http://blog.labnotes.org/2006/03/24/at-the-risk-of-flaming/#comment-1844 1) "all those who took him to task on his previous comments" Maybe that should read 'all those who took him to task on sys-con's tabloid headline re-writing of his previous comments' ;-) His previous comments can be seen and heard at 33:25 on the Flash video http://sys-con.tv/read/196169.htm Bill Venners made a good enough transcription for Artima. 2) "That Java is a great multi-purpose programming language? No doubt." When you "took him to task on his previous comments" part of your objection was that "PHP and Ruby /are/ generic purpose languages" - now you seem to be suggesting that being general purpose is the problem with Java. By your previous argument, if being general purpose is a problem with Java, then it would also be a problem with PHP and Ruby. 3) "I just don’t understand what he’s arguing for" I suppose we could suggest he's arguing that Java covers the long tail of software projects. 4) "Being a productive software developer is about..." There are many different ways to be a productive software developer. 1) “all those who took him to task on his previous comments”
Maybe that should read ‘all those who took him to task on sys-con’s tabloid headline re-writing of his previous comments’ ;-)

His previous comments can be seen and heard at 33:25 on the Flash video http://sys-con.tv/read/196169.htm

Bill Venners made a good enough transcription for Artima.

2) “That Java is a great multi-purpose programming language? No doubt.”
When you “took him to task on his previous comments” part of your objection was that “PHP and Ruby /are/ generic purpose languages” – now you seem to be suggesting that being general purpose is the problem with Java.

By your previous argument, if being general purpose is a problem with Java, then it would also be a problem with PHP and Ruby.

3) “I just don’t understand what he’s arguing for”
I suppose we could suggest he’s arguing that Java covers the long tail of software projects.

4) “Being a productive software developer is about…”
There are many different ways to be a productive software developer.

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